simply to evice rate spending on roads and brings and education, we are to make the tough choices. neil: there a middle ground, i want to try to -- both of you, slowly bring it in, that is don't make a you know, 180 switch right now, but stagger this in move those with a pension into a 401(k). as much as companies provides not that it is instancetainious. but as things stan now, these unfunded obligations are so staggering no one, no one will be able to pay them promises or not. >> that is voluntary, sure that economy a good solution. neil: like i said. was not voluntary for them, it is we could do something to slowly bring them to this reality, i think they can go fighting and kicking about it but for the good at keeping somebody in their mention they have to make the move now. >> voluntary, voluntary. neil: do you think that anyone would volunteer for this? they don't get something set by the company, would they volunteer for that. they never do. >> it depends on the risk, how old they are. neil: what if you gave them a sheet of paper with money on, money in money out, there was